As blog mistress for Agape Editions, I recently had the chance to talk with the creative pair who bring us Growing, the first release from our Kumquat Books children’s imprint. Mélusine Thierry, author, and Z.A. Pappas, illustrator, answered a few questions about their moving and joyful book.
JW: Tell me about a book from your own childhood that stays close to your heart, and what connects you to it.
Mélusine Thierry: Two of my favorite series when I was little were The Church Mice books by Graham Oakley, and the Madeline books by Ludwig Bemelmans.
The Church Mice series focuses on a rector’s cat named Sampson who, having listened to sermons on love and kindness, is essentially a pacifist by the time he meets the mice who live in the church. So they become friends, and experience all sorts of shenanigans together, including at one point attempting to raise money to save or repair the church roof. The books are entertaining and funny, but they’re also very sweet — they sort of share an essence with The Great British Baking Show, I think. They’re comforting. They build a world where things are at stake and it’s interesting, but mostly also everyone is nice to each other.
And I always loved the Madeline books for their rhyme and the beautiful, impressionistic illustrations — but I think also the character of Madeline appeals to me because she’s so independent. You know, she lives in this school without her parents around — and she knows how to listen to herself. She’s resourceful. And she has this interesting psychic connection with Miss Clavell, the nun who’s tasked with her care. Most of her stories involve Madeline helping to make something right or solving some kind of problem. I liked the adventurous, fearless energy of her stories, when I was a child. I still do.
Z.A. Pappas: My immediate answer is The Velveteen Rabbit (Margery Williams), both for its heart wrenching storyline — as well as the beautiful illustrations (note: there’s a lot of different versions with different illustrations, but I particularly love both William Nicholson’s and Florence Graham’s versions). I felt so fully immersed in the world, and truly felt for the rabbit. He was scared and lonely, he didn’t want to be forgotten or discarded. He just wanted to love and be loved. Without getting too much into the story, the rabbit, who is the toy of a young boy, learns from another well-loved toy that if toys are “loved enough,” they can become real. Eventually, the rabbit (after being thrown out because the boy falls ill from scarlet fever), becomes real and lives in the world with other rabbits. Even just thinking of it now gets me all misty.
The book clearly does an excellent job at teaching children to be compassionate and empathetic, to love and be loved, and to begin to understand the value in being present in the moment. There’s also this idea of an afterlife, to some extent. What happens when toys are thrown away? This can work as a metaphor for what happens to people when they are no longer with us. The love stays real, regardless. And maybe, there’s a place we all go to run off with the rabbits, so to speak.
Others include Madeline (Ludwig Bemelmans), The Tale of Tom Kitten (Beatrix Potter), Angelina Ballerina (Katharine Holabird), The Paper Bag Princess (Robert Munsch), and The Very Hungry Caterpillar (Eric Carle).
2. I believe children’s authors and illustrators create books not only for today’s children, but also for the child they once were. In other words, they write a story that they needed to read. Do you think that’s the case with Growing?
Mélusine Thierry: For me, I think I wrote the book I wanted to read to my daughter. There are so many books — including many that I love — that treat a very specific family structure as ‘normal,’ and that is biological mom + biological dad, married, with kids. I think a lot of the time, books depicting families that deviate from this structure tend to be all about how the family deviates from that structure. I value and respect the work that those books and their authors are doing. But I also think it would be great if we could shift the mainstream paradigm a little bit.
What I mean by that is, an awful lot of kids have single-parent families, or divorced parents, or blended families, or queer parents, or adoptive parents. Plenty of kids have no-parent households, as in they’re being raised by guardians or other caretakers, not by parents per se.
I think that all children deserve to see themselves and their identities reflected in books that give them complexity and development as individuals, with their own interior lives. And I think that can be difficult to do when so many lovely books are stuck doing the work of just trying to communicate, “Hey, it’s actually very much OK to have a family structure that’s been marginalized in American culture. Here is an example of how and why that is OK.”
And at the same time, I also wanted to write a book that showed a child learning to embrace change as a normal part of life. That’s not an easy thing to learn! I think life can often be uncomfortable, including for children; to me, it’s an important lesson that the people who love you best will be there to help guide you through difficult changes, or support you in moments of discomfort. It was important to me that Beatrix, with her family’s love and support — especially her mother’s — was able to make her own path through a challenging transition.
Z.A. Pappas: I think all children’s books are meant to be inspirational and aspirational, as well as teachable/educational. Clearly, the goal is to learn, whatever that thing is, whether something as “simple” as different colors or as complex as family dynamics. I’ve always viewed them partly as little guides.
As adults, we have the gift of retrospection and reflection, so we can understand what we’d want to teach a child, and how we want to be able to shape their dreams, wishes, and needs–based on how yours as a child were and weren’t met. In a case like Growing, that is definitely true. Every family is different, but that isn’t always reflected in what we see, whether as adults or kids — and especially for kids, it’s important to show that family isn’t just a two-parent household, specifically a biological one, but one that includes grandparents, aunts, uncles, biological parents, stepparents, step siblings, adoptive parents and kids, family friends, etc. In reality, family and community are complex, beautiful webs, and to start to see that not only as normal, but something to be proud of and inspired by, and to aspire to cultivate that, is a really valuable lesson to learn early, or at least, have contact with. We obviously don’t “learn” lessons as one and done, but continually. So, I hope that Growing does that for parents and kids alike.
3. What was the process of creating Growing like for the two of you? How did it unfold?
Mélusine Thierry: Well, we had been wanting to do a project together for a while. When I got the story drafted — it came bubbling up pretty quickly, when I was ready to write it — I sent Z.A. the synopsis and asked what they thought, whether they’d want to illustrate it. And they were interested, so I immediately got to work on creating a better draft. Once that was ready, I shared it with Z.A. and we discussed the concepts for illustrations on each page spread. And then I just waited to see what images they would bring forth from their own mind and heart. And they were so beautiful, every time. It was really amazing to watch the added life and dimension that their illustrations added to the story that had been growing in my heart.
Z.A. Pappas: To second Mélusine, I think we both really wanted the other to shine and find a way to give each other space. My job was to find a way to make the narrative and characters really come alive and shine visually. It was important for me to show all the emotional nuances and personalities, and to have fun with it! I really wanted it to have whimsy among the seriousness of it. I had such a blast ideating on what the characters would look like, their clothes, the house, etc.
For me, the story felt like a modern fairy tale (without spoiling too much) and I wanted to straddle that line of making the illustrations relatable but still feel enchanted. This was easy in the sense that it was all there in the story already, I just needed to interpret what that would look like. That’s the best part about collaborating. I think it helps that we both share a love of whimsical things, of course.
4. Do you hope to write more in this genre? What projects are you working on?
Mélusine Thierry: I’d really like to eventually write a book from each of the different Growing characters’ perspectives — one for each of the step-siblings, maybe one from the grandparents’ perspective, maybe even one about Bernard Bear and Florence Fox.
And, I’m currently working on a new book that I’m very excited about — it’s about the adventures of a spooky little girl named Evangeline Evanescence. I’m also slowly putting together a “Mommy And Me”-themed cookbook, although that’s sort of a slow-drip project.
Z.A. Pappas: There’s a few children’s book projects I’m in the process of writing, illustrating, and/or ideating (most are in the ideating stage, ha!). There are two (which exist in the same universe) that I finished writing and now need to finish illustrating (hopefully sooner than later), one is St. George and the Chubby Dragon and the other is The Chubby Dragon and the Little Bat.
Purchase Growing here!
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